Conscious Selfishness In Action
"Intelligent" Pursuit of Self-Interest

HIV/AIDS Hypothesis - Medical Industrial Complex?

UPDATE: HIV/AIDS Theory is Based on Fraud?

[ Prepared for Facebook groups, aimed towards skeptics. Facebook users please go here:
http://www.new.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=23479859352&topic=4735
]

There was also a discussion about this at the Facebook page of "Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science" for a while, which contains more info and emotions. Click here to view it.

Hello Dear Skeptics,

I question orthodox AIDS.
This is a little long and I broke it in 3 parts to not to scare you off.

Part 1
-------

Did you know that there are a lot of scientists out there, who say that HIV can't be the cause of AIDS? I didn't, until a few months ago... And I found it confusing that I've never heard about such thing before. Apparently the reason was that they're having a really hard time getting their voices heard. And then I was curious why that might be the case...

Later, what convinced me to look really deeper was to witness how the orthodox medicine always avoided scientific confrontation with these people. Maybe it's because the subject is so sensitive, but what I observed was a lack of professional, scientific debate and an excess of emotions and ad hominem attacks. The rethinkers are treated by the mainstream scientists as the evil enemies instead of fellow scientists looking for answers.

Now I thought this is a good chance for all the skeptics in the world to demonstrate some real skepticism and help each other find out the mysterious truth behind all this. I'll expose you only to some rethinker information. I believe that's fair considering that most of us were only exposed to the mainstream views.

I recommend starting with videos, that way you can inform yourself more effortlessly. For example "The Other Side of AIDS" is a nice documentary as an introduction:

Official Website

(In fact, you can stop reading the rest of this text and watch it -illegally- right now!)

Video: THE OTHER SIDE OF AIDS

Part 2
-------

But if you're impatient, here's a recent investigation report by a retired LAPD police officer for a fast start:
http://www.californiaconservative.org/academia/hiv-aids-gallos-egg

Quote from the investigation report:

"...I have never written about anything more important. This story changed my life, and if you have the time and patience to understand what I have written, it may change yours as well..."

Take your time, don't rush it. There's a lot to learn if you're new to this debate. After all it started more than 20 years ago. I've been looking into this since ca. 5 months now and I still don't know many things. Here's a plenty of information for the curious minds:
http://www.reviewingaids.com/awiki/index.php/List_of_dissident_websites

For example you can read how an insider became a rethinker here:
http://www.reviewingaids.com/awiki/index.php/Document:Why_I_Quit_HIV
http://www.reviewingaids.com/awiki/index.php/Document:Why_I_Quit_HIV:_The_Aftermath

Part 3
-------

I'd like to remind you something before I leave you with the information above. I'm worried about the current condition of modern skepticism. The below excerpt should help you understand my concerns:

"...If we think in terms of the general public and the influence of the media, we may conclude that a healthy dose of reflective skepticism is just what is required to counteract what Richard Dawkins calls “the current epidemic of paranormal propaganda.” Other contemporary scientists, however, thinking primarily of the attitudes of practicing scientists, believe that the scales are skewed very much in favor of negative criticism when it comes to unorthodox views or extraordinary claims which appear to threaten well-established scientific beliefs, and they argue for a greater degree of receptivity. Brian Josephson, for example, argues that the claims of “heretical scientists” are dismissed as “nonsense or impossible, generally without any serious attempt to look at the evidence” (Josephson, 1994). The essence of his objection is not that the unorthodox claims he mentions are actually credible, but that their merits have not been seriously assessed in a genuine scientific inquiry. Josephson is himself somewhat skeptical, but he refuses to say a priori that something cannot be the case. He fears that various “defence mechanisms” spring into action to defend the “purity” of science, and that claim, if true, would clearly undermine the kind of receptiveness which calls for an impartial assessment of an unorthodox claim in the light of evidence.

A fine contemporary statement embodying the attitude involved in critical receptiveness and acknowledging the problem of satisfying both dimensions is found in the writings of the late Carl Sagan who warned against the danger of skeptical criticism degenerating into a debunking of everything new and different: “....what is called for is an exquisite balance between two conflicting needs: the most skeptical scrutiny of all hypotheses that are served up to us and at the same time a great openness to new ideas....But if you are able to exercise only one of these modes, which ever one it is, you’re in deep trouble” (Sagan 1987, 41-2). Sagan thought of these needs as involving a seemingly self-contradictory mix of attitudes, but somehow justice had to be done to both aspects. Such conflicting demands seem likely to call for a “tolerance for ambiguity” in the individual if a finely-tuned critical receptiveness is not to collapse into a one-sided emphasis on one aspect to the exclusion of the other. Sagan’s perceptive comments offer some encouragement that Russell’s insights have filtered through to our own day to help illuminate the complex nature of the inquiring spirit and skeptical outlook. "

Source: http://www.williamhare.org/assets/hare_receptiveness_russell.pdf

Here's even an example for what I'm talking about:
http://www.rethinkingaids.com/Challenges/Crowe-Scalise-et-al.html

Notice that for some reason(Milgram?) the burden of proof never lied on the inventors of HIV/AIDS hypothesis. They announced HIV=AIDS in a press conference, the claims didn't even go through a proper peer reviewing process. So now it shouldn't be about demanding proof that 'HIV doesn't cause AIDS', it's about demanding proof that 'HIV causes AIDS' .

I think you can see where the majority of the modern "skeptics" fail dramatically: We never question the mainstream scientific authorities.

In short, don't approach this as a conspiracy theory to debunk, see it as an oppurtunity to learn something revolutionary new or as a chance to strengthen your confidence in what you already knew to be true. Don't be just skeptical about the paranormal, be skeptical about the seemingly normal, too. Science progresses through revolutions after all and this might be one of them.


Last Words
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In the end, what I would love to see is an objective, public, live debate about all this. Just one debate won't be enough probably, because if the rethinkers are right about everything then the problem lies a lot deeper than just HIV research. There should be a series of continuing debates. Even if there's no mass media attention to it, it should be made available for public viewing, simply via websites like YouTube for example. Can the Skeptics Society possibly arrange something like that?

P.S. Please try to ressist the urge to attack me if the above text bothers you, especially if you didn't take the time to examine the information I posted. If you were never objectively exposed to the "other side" before, I recommend investing minimum 15 hours into research before you convince yourself that you've heard enough. Thanks for your understanding and good luck with your research!

And I also kindly ask the admins to send an update to the members about this important mystery waiting to be solved, so that they all get a chance to hear about it. Thank you.

UPDATE: The 15 hours research I suggested should of course consist of informing yourselves from the rethinker/denialist/dissident sources, and not from mainstream. You can do that also but it doesn't count for the 15 hours... Just wanted to clarify that... :)

UPDATE: This addition aims at giving you reasons to care more about this topic:

*** "So what if HIV doesn't cause AIDS? People are still dying from it!"

To clarify this we need to understand that AIDS isn't a disease by itself, it just means deficieny of the immune system. So AIDS patients actually die from diarrhea, tuberculosis, malaria and many other common diseases, said to be a result of a weak immune system caused by HIV infection. But once they're diagnosed with AIDS, then they're primarily treated against HIV and not against the disease they're symptomatic of.

So if the current theory is wrong and if HIV doesn't cause AIDS, then those people are being mistreated and will probably die of treatable diseases. This is very important to understand.

Accordingly, all the funding that goes into treating AIDS (especially in Africa) would be basically misplaced in that case: http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0731/p01s04-woaf.html

(By the way WHO actually suggested recently that "A 25-year health campaign [against AIDS] was misplaced outside the continent of Africa.")

Apart from this being a matter of life and death, the current paradigm also affects the social lives of people who test HIV+ dramatically, as long as they live. They become outcasts and most of them have to quit their jobs and cancel their plans for the future. Life becomes suddenly extremely depressing for these people, believing that inevitable death awaits them soon. (Also valid for all the so called "false positives": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm6W369qmnw )

And finally, needless to say, this would also be a scientific revolution in a sense, because some fundamental assumptions in modern medicine are challenged by the rethinkers. The following changes wouldn't be just limited to AIDS research but many other scientific fields.

As far as I'm concerned there is enough information out there for reasonable doubt about the consensus. Considering how many lives it would positively affect, if the rethinkers are right, this issue is really worth looking into, very closely.

That's why I think everyone should risk wasting those 15 hours I suggested into research. And who knows? It might turn out not to be one of those baseless conspiracy theories out there...

UPDATE: This addition aims to give another example for bias among the 'modern skeptics'.




Here is a scientific summary of the case against the HIV/AIDS theory:


A Great Future Behind It

The Yin and Yang of HIV




12 comments:

You know the virus was also independently isolated by Jay Levy's group right?

No, you probably don't.

Nature. 1984 Dec 20-1985 Jan 2;312(5996):760-3.

Molecular cloning of AIDS-associated retrovirus.

Luciw PA, Potter SJ, Steimer K, Dina D, Levy JA.

Retroviruses cause a wide variety of diseases in avian and mammalian species. Human acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS) leads to collapse of the immune system and death by a wide variety of opportunistic infections; unusual forms of cancer are associated with this syndrome. Retroviruses have been recovered from tissues of AIDS patients and from patients with related conditions. These similar newly-isolated viruses are lymphadenopathy-associated virus (LAV), human T-cell lymphotropic virus (HTLV-III) and AIDS-associated retrovirus (ARV-2). We have identified a RNA genome of approximately 9 kilobases (kb) in virions purified from the culture medium of a human T-cell tumour line infected with ARV-2. A cDNA probe made from viral RNA detected circular DNA molecules and proviral forms in infected cells. We prepared a library of infected cell DNA. Recombinant phage included those with a 9.5-kb proviral DNA and viral DNA permuted with respect to the single EcoRI site. Comparison of three ARV isolates from different AIDS patients revealed polymorphism of restriction endonuclease sites.


I didn't read that paper yet, but I suspect that this should still answer that isolation claim:
DID LEVY "ISOLATE" HIV?

Levy is also adressed here:
The Perth Group revisits the existence of HIV

More here.

By the way, even if you're hesitant to reveal your identity, it would be kind if you could at least make up a username for future recognition. Thank you.


So you put more faith in a web posting from a hospital tech with a physics degree than you do from a peer-reviewed journal article from a group of researchers led by Jay Levy, an experienced, trained virologist?

I give up. I don't know what kind of human being would embrace such stupidity about a disease that has destroyed so many lives, but I don't even want to be on the same planet as you, let alone the same website.


I put faith in the unrefuted arguments of people who never use ad hominems, more than I put faith in the refuted arguments of people who only use ad hominems.

Don't give up Mr./Mrs. Anonymous, join me in asking brave questions and looking for real answers! You can't leave the planet just yet, so let us work together...

(Besides: I would leave the planet before you, that's my secret plan! :) So you wouldn't even have to move; you just help humanity progress to that point and then you can relax... I'll be gone before you even notice.)


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The removed comments were not related to this blog post. In the future please contact me directly from my email adress if you feel the urge to contact me about things which are unrelated to what I chose to talk about in this blog. Thanks...


anon 10:12, it isn't stupidity, it is denialism. It is the standard technique of those who can't handle reality. They make up their own "reality" and deny all facts that don't fit.

It is quite sad actually.


daedalus2u, should I reply here or should I continue in your blog? I think in your blog we already have more or less a foundation to base this discussion upon. So that's what I'd prefer, but I don't want to annoy you either. Or you can also email me if you prefer that. Your choice, but I got definetely things to say...


The exchange between me and the commenter above, daedalus2u, is currently available here if anyone is interested:
STRANGER THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE - Introduction to the low NO cause of ASDs

It seems to have settled, and sort of in a positive way... He's got an interesting blog by the way, mainly focused on his hypothesis about the connection between nitric oxide(NO) and autism spectrum disorders (ASD). It seems to be worth paying attention to...


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